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Post by zaidhe on Sept 7, 2006 15:25:28 GMT -5
Well, yes, it was just a matter of time until I made yet another of these little (well sort of little) posts I tend to make.
It's that time again folks. I see lots of people attending or talking about 20 man and 40 man raids (and some leaving our guild because of a lack thereof - but that is another topic not to be discussed here). You know what I think of all this. I think, "Gee, why can't we do this?" So, I browse the guild roster in game for a couple minutes. Then I usually start muttering to myself because we do have the people to do 20 mans or to farm 40 mans (ZG and MC and Kurinaxx).
So, I ask myself what am I doing wrong as a coordinator since I must not be doing my job (as I'm supposed to be setting this crap up). Well, I've been busy - so, who said I had to be there. Isn't Monday night the set raid night?
Which leads into the topic and title of this post. Time. It is all just a matter of time.
My time, your time, the raid start and end times, the length of the runs, the amount of time, and about damn time. So, I'm going to put it to you - tell me if there is someting wrong with Mondays and Fridays - because those are now the days I am going to try and set up raids. And I don't me little 5 man blues, we do those almost every night of the week and can use those as back up plans.
I'm talking about doing MC trash farming, UBRS, Valthalak, Zul'gurub, Kurinaxxx (don't know if we are ready for rajax), hell even ZG rep farming. We need to do this stuff, something anything. But the ting I feel most strongly about is doing this stuff as a guild.
Sure, we could go run this stuff on Saturday morning or with The Honored. And I won't ask you to change that (though most of you who do run with others have multiple 60s so I don't see saying, "But I'm raidlocked to be much of an excuse.") I won't stop you from running with other people. But I will say I joined FE to run with FE and to help FE, so let's do this as FE.
We are Fraternitas Exemplar, let's fucking live up to our name already and get our shit together and stop wasting our time (after all this is all about time). This time, is our time; and it is time we showed what we are really made of and showed our contribution to each other, to fun, and etc. So, it's just a matter of time till I bitch until you're deaf or until you shape up and contribute back to me about these raid times, or until we start getting this shit done.
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Post by SilBob on Sept 7, 2006 16:22:12 GMT -5
You are right. Great post Zaidhe. Come on FE lets get our shit together and get this done.
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Post by Scrunge on Sept 7, 2006 16:41:09 GMT -5
Well I don't know what else I can do. I show up on Mondays, usually have two different 60s I can contribute to fill needed roles, and even tried to set up something of a cooperation between two smaller guilds to try to get some runs going (which unfortunately failed spectacularly... sorry to be a fuckup). So, yeah, I'm a little frustrated by the situation.
Then again, does being in FE mean that you should be obligated to run if you don't feel like it? Is that what FE is about? I don't want it to be. So, I've repeatedly refused to join larger raiding guilds and consigned myself to occasional fun blue runs (really do want to get a 45 min baron accomplished), and occasional wipe fests on things like ZG and UBRS, *because I like the people in FE* and know a bunch of y'all IRL now.
I don't see any of the above changing. The one thing that might be neat is if we can get Moo's meta-guild thingy going. But who knows.
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Post by Rawhide on Sept 7, 2006 17:24:17 GMT -5
Again....
Your sig is jacked up, Zaid!!
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Post by Rawhide on Sept 7, 2006 17:38:03 GMT -5
Mondays and Fridays can work for me. Preferable start times (read: pull times) are 8:00 or 7:30 server, but can adjust a half hour here of there.
Once it's set in stone, I can work around it and plan for it. I just don't like it when days and times are switched around every couple of weeks (that hasn't been the case - just making sure we don't go there).
I prefer Raids to be considered a full run in 3 hours; where you get full participation points for that run. This doesn't mean the raid has to end - it just means that we can give folks "an out" at the 3 hour mark without the fear of missing out on lost DKP points.
I'm ready to do all of the above mentioned activites. Never been to most of them and want to do them as a guild and not on another guild's run.
We can really try to integrate Moo's Meta-Guild idea into our raid times as well.
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Post by zaidhe on Sept 7, 2006 17:59:35 GMT -5
keith, the point isn't that anyone is a fuckup, if anyone is it's me for the poor job - or lack thereof - I have been doing. so don't even think of calling yourself that.
and the whole point really is I just want feedback, and one of the main concerns is always time: what time we start, for how long, etc. And I need feedback to make that stuff better. And one of the things I think alot of people don't consider is like what Corey said, people can come and go when they need to and not worry, and since we don't use dkp it doesn't hurt loot either.
BUt more on the topic I just want feedback, I'm not saying we have to be some uber raiding guild - but if you want to raid, then let's raid and not just talk about it.
And if I didn't make it clear to everyone in my first post
there are friday raids now as well as per your convience
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Post by Caesarmoo on Sept 8, 2006 23:35:06 GMT -5
Couple things guys...
What Zaidhe is saying is that we need to focus and start getting involved, but he never accused anyone of not doing their part. Its not a matter of one or two people failing but as a whole, we just do not seem to come together as strongly as we should.
Also, adding friday night is useful as a second night. i just hope that we can make both nights happen, not just one.
Corey, i understand that other gulids stop at 3 hours, but it is HIGHLY impractical. An extra hour may not seem like its that useful, but it truely is. however, the goal of any raiding is to start with 2 nights at 4 hours a piece and working and working to get it down to a single 3 hour event. its a sign of progression and success.
lastly. Many might have read Ro's post and saw ZG and MC. thats not abnormal... those are beginning raider's focus. but he mentioned much more than that.
In fact, Upper Blackrock Spire was mentioned. also, MC Farming and Kurinnax farming. Naxxaramas farming and ZG farming. Farming runs take about 20 people and from 1 to 4 hours (depending on willingness to stay in and get it done)
These do a couple things..... 1 training for later raids. 2 gearing up our warriors and other members.
So please take what he is saying seriously, but not too personally.
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Post by Rawhide on Sept 12, 2006 16:44:57 GMT -5
I agree that we shouldn't LIMIT us to running 3 hour raids at all. If all of you zealous raiders want to push on for 4 and 5 hours - go for it! I am just asking for criteria be put in place where "x amount of time" is acceptable to earn full DKP for the raid that night. Example:Points system 2 pts for being on time 2 pts for staying to the "desginated time" allotment 1 pt for each Boss-Raid starts at 8 server and we set "3 hours" to be the designated time. -We go into ZG and kill 3 bosses in 3 hours, but the raid continues for another hour and kills 2 more bosses.Totals for the night: Folks that left at 3 hours = 7 pts (2+1+1+1+2) Folks that stayed to the end = 9 pts (2+1+1+1+2+1+1)Otherwise, you punish those that can't raid for 4-5 hours a night out of the extra "ending points". Yes, I am being biased But if no one else in the guild buys into this then so be it. I can only raid for 3 hours at a time...
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Post by zaidhe on Sept 12, 2006 21:23:58 GMT -5
well yet another reason to avoid points therefore, you go when you can and get what you can while you're there, hence the current system which in my opinion doesn't punish or reward based on time other than for loots seen drop
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Post by SilBob on Sept 13, 2006 8:17:53 GMT -5
I was under the impression that for now as long as what we were doing was guild related there was no DKP or RP or any kind of P. It is FREE ROLL 1 purp, 1 blue, 1 class.
Isn't that correct?
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Post by zaidhe on Sept 13, 2006 8:34:50 GMT -5
yes
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Post by Caesarmoo on Sept 13, 2006 9:00:39 GMT -5
I think Raw is just using the points as an example to support his 3 hour raid suggestion.
again, i agree that other guilds are using the system, but i think it hurts the raid more than helps. the goal is to work towards a single three hour time frame.
as for points, ending points are there not to punish those that cant stay but rather to promote staying until the end. Many systems that use ending points have it strictly on the "called ending" which is up to the raid leader, and doesnt have a strict ending time. so calling it at 4 hours is a reasonable and fair to all.
it is not meant to punish the one or two, but to reward the 38 or 39. If we set up a raid for 7:30 to 12:00. thats a four hour run with with a 30 minute invite window. if you know several weeks in advance (and you all do.... our runs in november are 4.5 hours), you can reasonably plan and alert others for this 4.5 hour block of time.
It is done this way because, as past raids have shown, if you give ending points midway through the run, or not at all, many will not run the full run... there is no incentive. It is the same mentality as when ppl leave a working raid only to try and jump back in once it is a farm-status raid. Yes, it is helpful to the few with a somewhat legitimate reason but it is abused by the lazy and greedy.
as for points. a meta-guild system will have points but a guild run with pug fill-ins will always be free roll
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Post by Rawhide on Sept 13, 2006 11:15:34 GMT -5
Excellent!!! I was just mis-guided on our current loot/attendance setup. I thought it was more of a temporary thing to get the raids going.
I agree with No points for guild runs...
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Post by ivelise on Sept 14, 2006 11:44:15 GMT -5
I can definetely do monday and fridays, the only thing is that on Mondays I might not be able to stay the full 4 hrs. I will try and stay they full 4 hrs but I can't make promises. Sounds like a very good plan to have set raiding nights it gives us a chance to set our schedules for those nights so it is perfect for me
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Post by Scrunge on Sept 14, 2006 15:15:44 GMT -5
Just wanted to find somewhere to post that I can't make this Friday in particular. I'm going to visit a friend for the weekend.
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